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Is copying stealing?

by SeasideMan @ 26/02/08 - 11:08:28

double_splash

When I bought a digital camera recently, it got me thinking about the subject of digital copies. Not just of photographs, but of music and films as well. In the good old days, a film was a tangible thing, something physical. Making copies meant you had to have your hands on the negative. Records could be copied, but only by playing them back and recording them onto tape with resulting loss of quality. Then along came digital CDs and DVDs and it all changed: you could get a perfect copy every time from any instance of the media. Now it’s even simpler - a file on your computer can be copied by anyone on the internet, if you choose to allow them. This should be a subject to be considered by anyone creatively using a digital format: photographers, film-makers, musicians, artists.

But is this stealing, or perhaps a better question would be is it fair? Is it moral? The copying of MP3s was stamped on hard a few years ago when the band Metallica kicked up a fuss about their music being swapped for free on the internet and this famous quote was made by them:

"If you won't be a fan of Metallica because we won't let you download our music for free, then fine, we don't want you as a fan”

The result was the shut-down of many file-sharing sites, and now lots of people pay for downloading songs. Now, the film industry is starting to kick hard about the same issue, and of live streaming of films.

When something is digital, it’s intangible, non-physical - you can’t point to the hard disk of your computer and say “there it is, that’s the film”. Technically, according to the letter of the law in many countries, copying such data isn’t theft because the original owner hasn’t been deprived of it; it is copyright infringement, not theft. If I was able to wave a magic wand and make an identical copy of your car, you still have your car: I haven’t stolen it. But consider this example:

I am a professional photographer and I have a stall where I sell prints of my photographs. You come along with your digital camera, snap one of my pictures and print copies of it. You set up a stall next to mine giving away copies of my picture for nothing. Not surprisingly, my business drops.

Is this fair? Technically the people taking those free copies haven’t stolen, but I have suffered a very real loss of my trade. This is the argument the film industry is using and I have to say that it does carry a lot of weight.

Of course, there is a counter-argument: those accepting the free copies wouldn’t have bought them anyway, and some people will still pay for the originals. Some people might even seek out more of my work because of the publicity of the free copies.

But there is a basic question that is normally side-stepped by people who do such illegal downloading and it’s this:

Why do they think they are entitled to the product of someone else’s hard work for free?

Or more personally:

Tell me why you think you are entitled to my work for free?

I see three major problems with the way things are going:

1. People think they are entitled to things for free these days. They think that someone else’s hard work and effort should be theirs for free. This sense of entitlement is spreading and I think it's a very bad thing.

2. People associate (rightly or wrongly) price with value. If something is free, it is thus devalued. When I was a kid I used to save up money to buy records and I treasured them. This doesn’t happen any more and I don't want to see a world where films and music become valueless because you can get them for nothing.

3. What of the future: If any art can be gained for free, why should it be made at all? What's the point of me going to the trouble of spending months recording an album or making a film if I don‘t get paid for doing it? Being a struggling artist and doing it for love is all very well and romantic, but sometimes artists have mouths to feed and bills to pay.

Interestingly, I believe this issue was first mentioned by the artist Pablo Picasso in the late 1940s. Very far-sighted chap.

If you want to, feel free to copy the above picture. I don’t mind!

Cheers, Tom.

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bloglikesitbloglikesit [Member]
26/02/08 @ 12:00

Personally, I think that a big reason for the prevalence of people illegally downloading music and video is to do with the cost of the items.

DVDs in particular cost virtually nothing to produce because many studios make their money back from cinema tickets (which are also ridiculously expensive at some places). Yes, blockbuster films cost more to make these days, but also they make much more at the box office too.

To then charge up to £20 (sometimes more) for a DVD, taking into account the cost of actual disk and the box means that maybe £19.80 is pure profit to be dished out between the various parties involved in it's production and retail. I know some DVDs are released at much lower prices, but the principle is the same.

With reference to your point 2, personally I would rather own an actual copy of a DVD, because I know it's going to be good quality and have nice packaging. I think many people would feel the same way. If DVDs were all more reasonably priced, piracy would be greatly reduced.

The only way prices are going to be reduced is if costs are reduced. Perhaps if the "stars" were not paid millions of dollars for acting in a film, that could happen. With reference to point 3, do you think that actors should get millions of dollars for what they do? What about artists like Damien Hurst - would you pay millions for his work? Making a profit is one thing, but the figures involved in blockbuster movies are ridiculous.

As for music, CDs cost more to produce because they don't have a theatrical release to pay back the investment made in the recording studio and editing etc, but even so, in general, the profit margins for some of those involved (and not necessarily the artists) are large. The popularity of online purchases shows that if the price is right, people will pay for music. That's certainly how I feel, anyway. The added bonus is that there is no physical product to produce, no disk, no packaging. Costs are lower. If I like an artist and their music is reasonably priced, I buy it, whether that's a CD or a digital download.

In closing, I don't disagree with you; I think piracy is bad, but I think the money grabbing people involved squabbling to keep up their inflated incomes are worse.

bloglikesitbloglikesit [Member]
26/02/08 @ 12:02

Oh, and to answer your original question, yes, I think copying something digitally without permission is stealing.

Buying a CD and copying it onto an MP3 player is not stealing, even though some record companies tried to say it was a few years back.

SeasideManSeasideMan pro
26/02/08 @ 12:21

It's a good point about the cost, but I'd say that anyone spending £20 on a DVD needs their head examined. I have over 500 of them and the most I have ever paid is £15 for a particularly new one. The average I pay is probably £6 or £7. They only stay at that high price for the first few weeks of release and only the true fans pay that because they are the only ones who really NEED to get it that early.

But generally I agree with your point and they should be cheaper.

As for your other points, I also like to have the proper packaging and I also agree that stars are overpaid. Personally, I don't think Tom Cruise deserves $20 million for 6 months work on a film, but the capitalist system says that since he guarantees ticket sales by his mere presence in a film that he is worth it. The system is rotten, unfortunately.

We seem to basically agree. Downloading for free is wrong, but prices should also be lower. Is that a fair summary?

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Tom.

bloglikesitbloglikesit [Member]
27/02/08 @ 10:22

Yep, that's basically how I feel. The studios could combat piracy - which eats into their profits - by reducing their slice of the retail cost, thus reducing their profits.

Not likely to happen any time soon...

SeasideManSeasideMan pro
27/02/08 @ 11:32

I don't see them voluntarily reducing their profits either, but I don't think combatting piracy is so straightforward. Pirates have a way of getting round anything, and all that's needed to get a new film onto the net is a camcorder and a broadband connection.

Tom.

I've never found downloaded films via live streaming any use at all...my DVD player rejects them even though it says it plays all kinds of formats...prefer, like you, to wait until the DVD price drops and then buy it...don't download music at all...but hubby chases his jazz CD's from around the world and gets excellent prices on nearly all of them...only occasionally paying a higher price for a rare recording...any images I put up on my blog, I haven't downloaded illegally, the creators of them permit downloading and I always acknowledge them on my site...that I think is fair. I do feel uncomfortable with getting films and music for free so avoid it...but don't agree with the exorbitant payments made to so many stars today, who are simply not worth it, and that applies even more to the top singers and musicians...when people feel ripped off, they find ways around it, and live streaming of films and downloading music on file sharing sites is a way of doing just that...what's morality today? Something is only judged to be moral if the mass of the people judge it to be so, clearly millions of people nowadays do not believe they're doing anything immoral by this method of acquiring entertainment, so perhaps it isn't.

SeasideManSeasideMan pro
26/02/08 @ 13:20

I blame the capitalist system. As I mentioned above to another reply, Tom Cruise gets paid $20 million per film for about 6 months work, but the studios pay him because they get it back again in ticket sales.

But one thing I don't wholly agree with is that mass opinion defines morality. Taking something from someone against their will that they want payment for is hard to describe as moral. Would you be happy for people to just take your paintings for nothing?

I'm glad you don't illegally download: neither do I!

Tom.

Well, if I was truly altruistic, I would say anybody who wants one of my paintings they can have one because I can't get a single gallery to show them...apart from a gallery for disabled artists in London and you rarely get sales there so tantamount to useless...mind you, I'd want the postage paid HLOL...don't want to be any more out of pocket than I already am with the materials...my time of course was more or less wasted...they're probably going to end up being destroyed after I'm gone and when our son has had his pick of them so, on reflection, I wouldn't mind now if somebody wanted one of my pics for nothing because all they're doing is taking up space in my house now...my friends in the USA say I'd have no trouble at all selling them there, but not here apparently....ah well...if somebody walked into my house and stole them, that might be a bit different, but I would hope they'd damned look after them...HLOL...

SeasideManSeasideMan pro
26/02/08 @ 15:45

Your time wasn't wasted if you enjoyed doing them. Have you considered putting them on ebay in the USA in order to gain publicity over there?

Tom.

Oh, yes, I did enjoy doing them but you generally paint and write for other people...well I do...don't tend to do thing solely for me...and ebay is packed with pictures...just a waste of time and they're selling them for peanuts...and they don't sell them either...only one or two make a living on it and I haven't got the ambition to push my work, never did have, and never will, so that I must accept in myself...not a business woman at all...:) I just give up too easily...

SeasideManSeasideMan pro
26/02/08 @ 17:05

Fair enough, but I think most successful artists do it for themselves first and others second. Trying to imagine yourself into the heads of lots of other people and guessing what they would like is the route to madness!

Tom.

Oh, no, I didn't mean it like that...I meant I did paint exactly what I wanted to paint regardless of whether others wanted it, but still did want others to see the end results...surely that's why people paint...in order to share how they see the world through the medium of oils or acrylics or water colours...or to show what's in their mind's eye...and a lot of successful artists don't actually end up doing it for themselves...commissions ensure they have to do what the customers want and that's often a real killer of their creativity...but I never reached that stage...:))

SeasideManSeasideMan pro
26/02/08 @ 18:25

Ah, OK. Sorry, I misunderstood.

Tom.

359Rabbit359Rabbit pro
26/02/08 @ 13:17

The law of copyright is pretty clear, and as always been so, even in the days of vinyl, records were always printed with labels stating that is was illegal to copy, or to use for public performance without the necessary licences. But now in the digital age it has become so easy to copy movies, music and pictures it has become prolific. Coping is illegal and it is wrong but it has become almost impossible to police. The music industry is trying allsorts of methods to combat this but it remains largely unsuccessful.

I think I would be most peeved if someone copied one of my pictures and then sold it on.

Did you also know that if you submitted a picture to the BBC, it has the right to use that picture anyway it sees fit, it can sell it on, you won’t receive any money for it and they don’t even have to acknowledge where it came from. So it appears that copyright laws do need reforming.

I did copy you’re your picture but because its from the internet it is 500 x 287 pixels at 96dpi and a file size of 60.91kb, which is pretty useless to anyone who wants to print it.

Rabbit

SeasideManSeasideMan pro
26/02/08 @ 13:26

Nicely summed up, Rabbit. I agree with everything you said. How on earth this can be policed, I don't know. I certainly don't like the idea of a Big Brother snooping round the internet for illegal stuff. Far better would be to try and educate people that they simply aren't entitled to get other peoples work for free. If it's freely given that's a different thing, but it can't be expected or thought of as an entitlement.

Yes, I did know that about the BBC and frankly, I think that's outrageous.

The original picture of the double splash that I took was 2Mb, so the reduction down to 60K represents a huge drop in quality. That's why I don't mind people copying it. That was the first picture I took that I really liked, so I am quite fondly attached to it.

Tom.

359Rabbit359Rabbit pro
26/02/08 @ 13:39

I used to post pictures on the BBC but stopped when I found out what they were doing.

Most pictures on the web have been redueced in size, it does not affect the quality you see on screen, but you can't copy and print them because of the size of them.

Rabbit

SeasideManSeasideMan pro
26/02/08 @ 13:46

I bet they have some tastefully and carefully worded smallprint that tells you that they basically own your work once you send it to them. I dislike that policy quite fervently.

I wonder if this site owns the things we right? I think I must check the Ts and Cs.

Tom.

ann011 [Visitor]

27/02/08 @ 09:38

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SeasideManSeasideMan pro
27/02/08 @ 11:24

Thanks, ann. Is that an advert for a BT shopping site I see there?

Tom.

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