Kids Today Are Ill-Mannered Louts, and I Blame the Parents!

SeasideMan ^pro
03/06/08 @ 09:25

I think the way kids are being brought up is part of the problem. Teaching them about how to be good citizens, about the environment, about how to get on with people, about why politeness matters, about not dropping litter is part of the solution. But only one part.

Tom.

faffajane ^pro
http://faffajane.blog.co.uk/
04/06/08 @ 18:57

unfortunately parents seem to think it is the schools responsibiltiy to teach little Jane and Johnny how to be good citizens and this is something that the Government has jumped on the bandwagon for which is why there are now citizenship classes in school. However it is too late to teach them when they are in school, learning from your parents is the first thing that should be taught !!

SeasideMan ^pro
04/06/08 @ 19:30

Spot on, I agree there. Teaching kids how to be good people should start from the moment they are able to understand their parents. The responsibility must be squarely eith the parents.

Tom.

eggbod [Member]
http://wordworld.blog.co.uk
03/06/08 @ 09:18

I do blame the parents.

And the legislation.........

Schools have no power either but first and foremost the responsibility lies with the parents

SeasideMan ^pro
03/06/08 @ 09:27

So what needs changing to make things better?

Tom.

eggbod [Member]
http://wordworld.blog.co.uk
03/06/08 @ 09:42

Well in this Mary Poppins nanny state we live in, nobody is held accountable for their actions. So we have a society that never takes the responsibiility for bad behaviour. And that starts with bringing up children with love, discipline, respect and manners.

Otherwise we are where we are now.

And I don't regard this is an over-simplistic view either

SeasideMan ^pro
03/06/08 @ 10:39

I think I pretty much completely agree with you. Unfortunately, that means that fixing the problem is at least 2 generations distant.

Tom.

jenray ^pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
03/06/08 @ 12:07

Do you know, it's very strange, but I have very rarely ever met any bad mannered young ones...those I've met have been great...I've met sad ones, who ended up dead on occasions, but all this talk of ill manners and boorish behaviour I find very depressing because it isn't half as common as it is made out to be by the media intent on slagging off everything...in our bus station one day, there were a group of youngsters, some of who were Goths, standing behind the bench where those of us who can't stand all the time waiting for the buses to arrive sit...they were being a bit noisy, but nothing aggressive, and an old lady turned round and asked them if they could not make so much noise...they turned round, apologised to her and moved off further along the bus station where they continued chatting...I was very impressed with them...sorry, Tom, I think this downer on our kids is really out of order...if we saw the good in them, maybe they wouldn't see us adults as being anti them all the time...great big hugs...

SeasideMan ^pro
03/06/08 @ 12:58

I think you've been lucky there then. I speak from personal experience as well, but the real killer is the employer who can't hire youngsters because their rudeness upsets the customers. There are of course exceptions, but the trend certainly appears to be downwards as far as I can see.

Tom.

jenray ^pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
03/06/08 @ 15:05

I don't whether it's luck...I think if kids come from areas of deprivation they're going to be bolshie and rude because they see others with so much more than they have, and that's enough to make anybody angry and resentful...what's seriously lacking in our world now is hope...without it, you just get a lot of very pissed off people with little or nothing to look forward to in the future...this is a by product of Thatcher's Britain when a huge amount was offered but the dream turned quickly sour when it became apparent that only a few would make it to the top and most would reach their ceiling far below their aspirations very quickly, and a large number of people would never even get a foot on the ladder...this was very different from the generation after the war who had everything to work for after losing so much, but even that hope couldn't be passed on to the youngsters who saw that the adult's dreams only led to wars and greed...the hippy movement that swept across many countries in the sixties/seventies foundered when most involved in it realised you couldn't opt out of society completely and survive so came back in and tried to change things from the inside. Then the punks came in with their aggressive rebellion and hopelessness was in vogue for a while...Thatcher encouraged the restoration of greed and ambition but the attainment of both money and a good position in the work force wasn't available to everybody...to blame this new generation for their attitude to life is wrong...this is the world we gave them and a heck of a lot of their parents are the ones with low salaries, if any work at all, and poor housing and schools in choas with all the changes imposed on them until they don't know whether they're coming or going and from that, we're supposed to produce an educated young generation...hmmm...not to mention that we now have a much more cosmopolitan society and all that that entails...I'll stop here...got carried away again...LOL...

SeasideMan ^pro
03/06/08 @ 16:35

As always I agree with some of your points. But, I don't accept that kids are made surly and rude purely by poverty and their surroundings. Poverty exists all over the world and some of the very poorest people in the world (none of whom are in Britain) are often the most pleasant. The only thing that can be blamed is what they have been taught by their parents and by wider society.

Cheers, Tom.

jenray ^pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
03/06/08 @ 19:09

I think that was I was saying re the end part...I wasn't expanding my thoughts to encompass the world...LOL
...just Britain at the moment...the parents are part of our society and it's what our society has engendered in them and what they are now passing on to their children...I was trying to think where the blame lies as we seem to always look for something or someone to blame, and I think the inequality in our society must bear much of the blame...it's true there's a lack of discipline present, but I remember my efforts to discipline our son and it was very difficult indeed trying to rein in a rebellious teenager, but, in the end, he's grown into a very respectable and well balanced man so I don't judge youngsters for their moments of rudeness and boorishness...most I should hope would grow out of it, and become very nice adults...the tragic thing today is the way some young ones have resorted to carrying weaponry and are prepared to use it...this is the very worrying factor that must somehow be dealt with and quickly because too many young ones are dying, not to mention the occasional innocent victim caught in the action...this is new and so far, we haven't found a solution...perhaps the only people who can resolve it are those living in areas where such crimes are taking place, and start really working together to help the local young people to change their approach to life...outsiders coming in will probably be ignored or rejected but local people banding together might achieve what others cannot....

SeasideMan ^pro
03/06/08 @ 19:28

I would have to agree that societal conditions are a factor in all of this, but I would contend that it is not the primary factor. This is because the situation isn't universal. Some parents manage to raise outstanding children under the most appalling conditions and others (in the same conditions) don't.

The violence you refer to is perhaps the most severe aspect of what I am referring to. Fixing that has to come from 2 ends: making the punishments harsh enough to deter it, and finding out why such behavious happens in the first place and trying to stop it. One thing seems certain though: any change will take many years.

Tom.

jenray ^pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
03/06/08 @ 20:01

I wish I thought harsh sentencing would cure it, but I don't think it will, also if the sentences become too harsh nobody is going to come forward and report anybody who they saw committing the crime, even parents would think twice I would imagine...and I don't think we've got years to change the situation...it's relatively new so nipping it in the bud has to be the best method...just how is the problem....also we're discussing this in such general terms...you say some parents bring up great kids while others bad kids, but that applies the world over...that's life...not sure you can do anything to change that...human beings are all very different even though they have a lot in common...getting everybody to conform to an acceptable norm is probably tantamount to impossible unless you're going to use undemocratic and draconian methods of bringing everybody into line...no easy answers unfortunately...

SeasideMan ^pro
03/06/08 @ 20:20

I can be a pessimistic old bugger when I try. I really think things are going to get worse before they get better, and we have a long way to go yet.

I don't think youth crime is a new thing either: it just gets reported more.

But I certainly agree that there are no easy answers. I think you're also probably right about heavy sentences deterring reporting: I hadn't considered that. *sigh* There really are no easy answers are there...

Tom.

faffajane ^pro
http://faffajane.blog.co.uk/
04/06/08 @ 19:01

I came from a very poor background, but my parents taught me respect, and manners and hopefully I have instilled this in my children as well. A lot of youngsters today don't all come from deprived backgrounds and not all of them are rude, in fact I know a lot of children from quite wealthy backgrounds and areas who are given everything who are very rude! I don't think it is necessarily the surroundings or the area they live in, or peer pressure, I do think it is how they are brought up, I see a lot of youngsters from homes where the parents couldn't care less, think the sun shine out of their children's backsides and blame everyone but themselves for the way their children have turned out.

Wish I knew what the answer was but I sometimes think that parenting skills, or lack of, has a lot to answer for

SeasideMan ^pro
04/06/08 @ 19:36

Thanks, FJ. The fact that your parents managed to raise you so well whilst being poor proves that it can be done. It's all too easy to blame government, evil corporations or whatever, but at the end of the day the parents have far more power and control over their own offspring than anyone else does.

I wonder if good parenting can be taught?

Tom.

faffajane ^pro
http://faffajane.blog.co.uk/
05/06/08 @ 07:22

I think it is something that is instilled from your own parents, as much as I said i will never do what my parents did, I find myself doing the same things they did when it comes to handling my own children! However with people having to move away from a support network of a family, there is a breakdown where you don't have the support if things go wrong. There is also that attidue of it is someone else's problem which leads everything in a downward spiral

SeasideMan ^pro
05/06/08 @ 08:43

I think it's inevitable that to some extent we copy our parents as well as try to rebel against them and be different.

Personal responsibility is one of the things that seems to be disappearing in this country now. The "someone else will deal with it" attitude.

Tom.

Kackers [Visitor]
http://kackers.blog.co.uk
03/06/08 @ 13:09

It is a difficult one.

When kids have parents that are no more than kids themselves.... who leads who?

SeasideMan ^pro
03/06/08 @ 13:34

Indeed. It's the generation after this one that I have most concerns about, when today's kids start raising kids themselves.

Tom.

skip2468 [Member]
03/06/08 @ 19:35

Congratulations to Helen for her success.

SeasideMan ^pro
03/06/08 @ 19:47

Thanks Skip, I'll pass that on to her.

I'm not sure how long she'll stay there though. It's only intended to be both part-time and temporary until we sort out something that is both more of a career and that pays better.

Cheers, Tom.

frankofyle [Member]
04/06/08 @ 02:29

Interesting post and some riveting comments.

But, to go right back to the start and answer the question "who can we blame?", well, I think ultimately it goes further back than the parents - it goes right back to the late sixties when dopey liberal thinkers changed the rules.

Anyway, rather than dwell on the origins of the malaise that is undeniably rotting the fabric of future British society, the real question should be "what can we do about it?"

Well, unfortunately, I think the answer's "not a lot". It's too late for change. Far too late. Basically, Britain's had it. And it's not just because of the kids. The rot goes right up to the very top.

Ultimately, it's all about a lack of respect for one's fellow man; or more specifically one's fellow Brit (demise of National Health, ever-widening gap between 'haves' and 'have nots', disappearance of basic Christian ethics etc.). Society's values are all wrong too.

And it's going to get worse. Which is why I moved to France.

SeasideMan ^pro
04/06/08 @ 09:14

I think "lack of respect" hits the nail right on the head. Respect and consideration. I think there are 2 things that can be done, but they are both long-term: educating people on how to be good citizens, and fixing social deprivation so that people have the means to improve themselves, even if they choose not to. Both of these would take 2 generations to make any difference.

I understand your wanting to jump ship, but even with all of its problems I still would rather live here than anywhere else. Except maybe New Zealand.

Tom.

deleted user [Visitor]

04/06/08 @ 18:55

I blame the tv, media, government whatever. I've tried to raise my kids right but if they go off the rails is that my fault? probably ....

SeasideMan ^pro
04/06/08 @ 19:29

I think some blame certainly sticks to government, as jenray has pointed out. But media? I don't see how. What did you have in mind?

Tom.