Animal testing Doesn’t Work

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Animal testing Doesn’t Work

by SeasideMan ^Pro @ 12/09/08 – 10:48:06

Testing on mice doesn’t even tell us if a drug is safe for rats!

"Ranking Possible Carcinogenic Hazards", Bruce N Ames, Renae Magaw and Lois Swirsky Gold, Science, Vol 236, 1987, p271:

"Of 392 chemicals in our database tested in both rats and mice, 226 were carcinogenic in at least one test, but 96 of these were positive in the mouse and negative in the rat or vice versa. This dischordance occurs despite the fact that rats and mice are very closely related and have short life-spans. Qualitative extrapolation of cancer risks from rats or mice to humans, a very dissimilar long-lived species, is unlikely to be as reliable. Conversely, important human carcinogens may not be detected in standard tests in rodents; this was true for a long time for both tobacco smoke and alcohol, the two largest identified causes of neoplastic death in the United States"

So, since the testing is no good, why does it still happen?

Cheers, Tom.
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15 Comments to Animal testing Doesn’t Work

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- Lemonhead
- 12/09/08 @ 10:56:55
Unfortunately this will just encourage them to test on apes
Or humans
- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 12/09/08 @ 11:04:41
  Apes have the same problem as the mice/rats: similar to humans but not close enough to be useful.
  
  Humans is the way to go. But after that test a few years ago where 6 volunteers almost died, I expect volunteers are hard to come by!
  
  "We want to inject this drug into you as a test, it's never been used on a human before, but it might help cure cancer"
  
  "Is it safe"?
  
  "Well, it might kill you or cause you agonizing pain for a very long time"
  
  "Oh OK, go ahead then since it's for a good cause"
  
  Do you fancy volunteering?
  
  Tom.
  - - Lemonhead
    - 12/09/08 @ 11:13:30
    I'm pretty sure human subjects get paid/expenses... some people will do anything for money
    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - 12/09/08 @ 11:34:20
      I don't know if they still do, but they used to "encourage" soldiers to "volunteer" for this sort of testing.
      
      Testing on human tissue samples is becoming viable now, and I hope that takes off.
      
      Tom.
      - Lemonhead
        
        12/09/08 @ 11:39:02
        
        ooo keeping bits of people alive and bombarding them with drugs... that's not going to go down well with certain types
        You just can't please some people!
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        12/09/08 @ 11:43:23
        
        Haha, true, and I'm sure we all have our own opinions on which people that's going to be...
        
        Tom.
        
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- doll_did_it (Visitor)
- 12/09/08 @ 13:40:59
because some things can only be done with living tissue. for example viruses require living tissue. they use mouse fetuses. you like having aids treatments, right?

it's massively expensive to house and maintain animals, which are in themselves massively expensive - bred to be genetically neutral etc etc. you can't just get a cat off the street. you have to know exactly what profile you're working with. there's also a huge amount of ethics debate and permission, and supervision required for any type of animal testing, including behavioural. it isn't something scientist WANT to get into, if they don't have to
- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 12/09/08 @ 13:43:37
  As noted, testing on animals simply doesn't produce results that can be transferred even remotely accurately to humans. If tissue is required, use human tissue as then the results stand a far better chance of being reliable.
  
  Tom.
  - - dolly_did_it (Visitor)
    - 12/09/08 @ 14:02:59
    because it's so much cheaper and easier to start the process of eliminaion at the rat level. you can't get human embyros. you can't even get stem cells. it's easier to get weapons grade plutonium. when people stop being pathetically pc, there will be a lot better research. besides which, they don't test something to be dirctly transferable - they experiment to understand HOW. how genes might control cancer growth. or cell death. or hormone prodction. the PRINCIPLES are then used on people.
    
    if it's any help, a lot of remedies that have been tested on humans are now used in vetinary science - chondroitin for a start
    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - 12/09/08 @ 14:19:04
      The testing for human efficacy on animals doesn't work.
      
      As for principles: fair point, thanks for it.
      
      Tom.
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  - - wehavetoactnow
    - 13/09/08 @ 17:37:35
    I understand tissue testing to be the most effective method.
    
    When I was about 1o years old, I learnt about vivesection for the first time, and I was horrified. I wrote to a charity (I forget which) and got a catalogue of products that aren't tested on animals. I have continued to update my knowledge ever since, and feel almost certain that nothing I buy now (cosmetics, toiletries) has been tested, and nor have the ingredients. BUAV is a good source of reference and The Good Shopping Guide.
    
    I can't be as sure when it comes to drugs, but I do try to avoid drugs unless absolutely necessary.
    
    This is something I feel very strongly about.
    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - 13/09/08 @ 18:24:50
      Thanks for your thoughts. Thankfully, public awareness of how badly test animals get treated is growing now.
      
      Tom.
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- AmethystLady ^Pro
- 15/09/08 @ 12:42:07
I feel strongly on these too. I buy my toiletries from Lush, who are animal testing free and proud of it.
- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 16/09/08 @ 15:24:53
  I haven't heard of Lush, but it's great that there are companies out there who are free from such vile testing.
  
  Tom.
  - - AmethystLady ^Pro
    - 16/09/08 @ 18:18:07
    They have branches in all the big cities or you can buy online www.lush.co.uk
    They are active protestors when it comes to animal testing and the enviroment
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