What would you do?

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What would you do?

by SeasideMan ^Pro @ 27/08/09 – 09:12:47

I bought some old electrical equipment on ebay and it was an absolute bargain: £5.00 + £4.50 postage, £9.50 in total. No-one else bid. I just got an emaill from the seller who says he messed up the cost of the postage which should have been £9.58, i.e. total charge should have been £14.58. He admits that it is entirely his fault and he is sending the item to me this morning anyway. BUT, he says, it would be nice if I paid him the extra £5.

So, would you pay the extra £5 because of his mistake or not?

Tom.
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93 Comments to What would you do?

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- frankofyle
- 27/08/09 @ 09:18:17
Er..., tricky. But in this instance, mainly because it was a bargain, I think I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and grudgingly pay.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 09:24:44
  Thanks FoF. I'm still mulling it over...
  - - justgrrl
    - 27/08/09 @ 10:04:39
    I would like very much to know how you'll decide - would you tell us?
    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - 27/08/09 @ 10:06:13
      Of course.
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- - justgrrl
  - 27/08/09 @ 10:00:00
  what "benefit of the doubt" are you talking about?
  
  Postage fees are not secret issues, everyone knows what are the usual postage fees, sometimes the fee is printed on the little label the post will attach/stick on the packet.
  
  The cost of the postage is a provable/evident sum of money, and the only honourable way (I mean no "benefit of doubt", but "une question d'honneur") to proceed - in my view - is to refund the post fees so someone that otherwise would pay it from their own pocket.
  - - SeasideMan ^Pro
    - 27/08/09 @ 10:03:45
    On the point of honour you are of course right. But the first thing I did was imagine myself into the position of the seller - what would I do? I'd kick myself in the bum, be angry with myself for being so stupid, vow never to make the same mistake again and I wouldn't mention it to the buyer. I'd take it as a learning experience.
    
    That's why I'm undecided.
    - - justgrrl
      - 27/08/09 @ 10:07:11
      It is your decision, of course, you just wanted to listen to our opinions.
      I would very much appreciate if you would you tell us how you decide. Thanks.
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- Munzly
- http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
- 27/08/09 @ 09:24:58
Split the difference....
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 09:57:55
  That's what Helen said as well...
  - - Munzly
    - http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
    - 27/08/09 @ 10:08:10
    If he's trying it on, it will irritate him, and if it's a genuine mistake he'll feel better - you'll get is a warm glow in the conscience... The correct businessliike answer of course, is "Stuff him! He'll know better next time." - but I don't think that goes with your character.
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- banana ^Pro
- http://poetry4fun.blog.co.uk
- 27/08/09 @ 09:28:11
When it arrives if it is all working and as it should be, and if the postage couldn't be avoided - ie he hasn't made a mistake and paid more than was strictly necessary - then yes I would probably pay the extra.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 09:58:33
  Hmm, that makes sense.
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- blue2pink ^Pro
- 27/08/09 @ 09:52:30
i would but that me
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 10:00:07
  Thanks, I'm undecided yet...
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- frankofyle
- 27/08/09 @ 09:53:12
Forgot to mention... excellent piccy.
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- catsInVienna
- 27/08/09 @ 10:01:52
That is a difficult question, I think I would mail Ebay and ask them what I shall do. I think it is not allowed to change the prize. Is extra 5 pound too much for this electrical equipment?

Is your cold getting better?
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 10:05:46
  I think that according to ebay rules, he's not supposed to ask me for any more money. He gave the price, I paid it and that's the end of it.
  
  I now have a lingering bad cough, but no other symptoms. Thanks for asking :-)
  - - catsInVienna
    - 27/08/09 @ 10:09:51
    Ebay: I think also. I would not pay it, because he would does the same with everyone and that is not fair.
    
    Cough: I hate it! I hope it is getting better soon!
    - - justgrrl
      - 27/08/09 @ 10:14:00
      You would not pay? How disappointing for the poor man to pay the postage from his own pocket!
      - catsInVienna
        
        27/08/09 @ 10:36:10
        
        Yes you are right, but a friend of mine sells a lot by Ebay and first he goes to the post office and check the cost of the postage. I think this man had not do this, it is his fault. It is a difficult question, if you should pay it!!?? I do not if 5 pounds is a lot of money? I think no, in Austria we have Euro. Maybe you can suggest to pay the half prize. I think it is fair, it is not your fault!
        
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        justgrrl
        
        27/08/09 @ 10:45:25
        
        It is NOT fair to let others pay for you, especially not if their mistake (of not checking exactly how much the potage will cost) was not deliberate.
        
        (it makes not difference if Euro or other money - it is the 'principle' we are discussing here)
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        27/08/09 @ 10:46:41
        
        My guess is that he estimated the weight rather than weighed the item, resulting in the wrong postage amount. I've checked the ebay rules and he is not allowed to ask for the extra money. I still might give him half (or all) of it anyway though.
        
        £5 is about 5 Euro, I think/
        
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        justgrrl
        
        27/08/09 @ 10:50:52
        
        in my view, we are talking here much more about a 'principle', not so very much about the amount as such.
        
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        catsInVienna
        
        27/08/09 @ 10:59:16
        
        I agree! I was not shure if 5 pounds is a lot of money, it was only a question.
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        27/08/09 @ 11:04:24
        
        The "principle" according to ebay rules is that he is not allowed to ask for this money, and I shouldn't give it to him.
        
        The moral principle is another matter. As I mentioned to someone else, if I was the seller I'd accept the loss. Why should I treat him differently to how I would treat myself?
        
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        justgrrl
        
        27/08/09 @ 11:13:32
        
        when we act - in whatever 'domain' - we act according to certain principles, and I for one, if I ask people 'what would you do' I would also be interested to hear why would they do so. You, of course, are totally right (on your blog anway ...) not wanting to know about the underlying reasons, or principles.
        
        I take back all my comments about 'principles'
        
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        catsInVienna
        
        27/08/09 @ 10:58:24
        
        I agree! It is still a hard question! I think I would angry with him but I would pay the half prize. I have no ever buy by ebay, sometimes I am looking for things. I would have a bike, but there are too expensive, I would buy one in a second hand shop, it is cheaper.
        
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- jackfrost ^Pro
- 27/08/09 @ 10:28:15
If at the new price it is still a bargin and had you seen it at that price you would still have snapped it up, then I would send the money....or split the difference and give him half... However if he is trying it on then tough on him.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 10:43:46
  I won't know if he's trying it on until the parcel arrives with the postage price on it. That will be decision time!
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- la_spice
- 27/08/09 @ 10:41:05
Wait until the parcel arrives, check the postage paid and then decide
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 10:49:03
  I'm certainly doing nothing until the parcel arrives and is found to be in full working order! Then - we'll see...
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- epistemological-savagery
- 27/08/09 @ 10:53:37
i agree with the above, wait and see.

it raises an interesting point on a broader scale about how we view people in general. i shant lie, i'd not pay the guy, but then i have a very negative view on people in general and would take the line that he is pulling a fast one.

however, he may be perfectly innocent and nice.

tough one.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 11:02:27
  It has to be wait and see really - it should say on the packet how much the postage was. If it says £9.58 I'll know he genuinely messed up. But as I mentioned to someone above, if I was the seller and it was me who messed up I wouldn't expect someone else to pay for my mistake and in fact I wouldn't even mention it to them. This raises the wider philosophical point: why should I treat someone else better than I would treat myself?
  
  On the ebay forums I checked, they say that he is not allowed to ask for the extra money, and it shouldn't be sent on principle as otherwise he won't learn.
  
  I really am teetering on the fence now!
  - - catsInVienna
    - 27/08/09 @ 11:26:15
    I think it is a big problem by ebay with extra money and I think that seller has to learn for their mistakes.
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- - justgrrl
  - 27/08/09 @ 11:06:50
  now, why would you have "a very negative view on people in general"?
  - - epistemological-savagery
    - 27/08/09 @ 11:41:11
    sadly, i think the majority of people would be more likely to want to pull a fast one than genuinely make a mistake. if he's selling things on ebay, he's providing a service. its an online shop, for me its the same as someone stopping you in tesco and saying 'i'll have an extra fiver for that loaf of bread please'.
    
    surely the fact he's providing a service to tom should mean he should abide by the rules of his vendor (i.e ebay).
    - - justgrrl
      - 27/08/09 @ 12:12:23
      i, for one, don't think in the first instance that someone would "want to pull a fast one", especially not if it's the matter of 5 pounds and he did explain honestly how it happened that he made that mistake, may be he was a bit lazy to go (and waste half an hour with going to the post office with the item, and letting the people at the desk to estimate exactly how much it is, then go home and wait for bidders to bid one pound, two punds, etc).
      
      He made a mistake, mey be becasue he is s bit of a comfort-loving type - who does not make such sort of mistake?
      
      Surely there are 'rules' on ebay, and he actually expained how it happened he is now in disadvantage of not having cared more.
      
      I think, if he wanted to pull a fast one, he would have said from the very beggining it makes 20 pounds postage, and basta! Buy it, or leave it.
      
      The comparison with the "extra fiver for that loaf of bread" at tesco is not adequate, as tesco hasn't got a 'mail' delivery, and second, if they had, they would make sure they charge you in such a manner from the very beginning that you have no choice to apply your 'strict rules' towards people that presumably want to pull a fast one.
      
      If Tom would make use of his 'right' to not pay (which he has, accoring tpo ebay rules), then, in my view, he would just 'profit' from someone's undeliberate mistake of not checking exactly the postage fees (he might have been lazy or what, but not at all a 'bad guy that deserves a lesson').
      
      I could not enjoy that item, having all the time an image in my mind of a guy that paid 5 pound for me out of a (not at all criminal) inattentiveness. Provided the item arrives in good condition, and corresponds to the descrription given on ebay.
      
      So very often I see people wanting to 'teach others a hard lesson' in the sense that they drink wine themselves, while others should get on with simply water. Yes, I am preaching...
      - SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        27/08/09 @ 12:44:03
        
        One slight correction: it's not that I have a "'right' to not pay" as you put it, the rules actually forbid such a payment. However, I may still end up deciding that it's a bad rule and I should break the rule and pay.
        
        The point I keep coming back to is if I were the seller: I'd accept the loss and never make that mistake again.
        
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        justgrrl
        
        27/08/09 @ 13:19:47
        
        Pardon my French, but I can't halp having the impression you are happy that "the rules actually forbid such a payment"...
        
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        justgrrl
        
        27/08/09 @ 13:20:24
        
        help, instead of help (again! ...)
        
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        justgrrl
        
        27/08/09 @ 13:20:44
        
        help, instead of halp
        
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        justgrrl
        
        27/08/09 @ 13:21:50
        
        see how I discreetely contribute to incresing the number of comments?
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        27/08/09 @ 13:25:08
        
        I'm not happy about any of this...
        
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        justgrrl
        
        27/08/09 @ 13:28:28
        
        I believe you are not happy, of course, but you make the impression that you are happy that "the rules actually forbid such a payment", as you say...
        
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- Miza-T
- 27/08/09 @ 11:03:38
I don't know what I would do.

Hope that helps

xx
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 11:06:38
  Haha, it does, thanks.
  
  That makes me relieved that I'm not the only one who doesn't know what to do :-)
  - - justgrrl
    - 27/08/09 @ 11:15:56
    See? you don't know what to do, and are also not happy when others offer you halp to apply honourable principles
    - - justgrrl
      - 27/08/09 @ 11:16:44
      ~~halp~~ help
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    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - 27/08/09 @ 11:33:10
      I asked what others would do and I am thinking about all of the responses. I am grateful for all the helpful suggestions, including yours. When I have the parcel I will make a post detailing what I have done.
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- ronkeytonk
- 27/08/09 @ 11:17:16
If his feedback rating is good then i would give the money, if of course the item you receive is in godd working order. Also, isn't there a comments section on ebay user's pages? See if anyone else has mentioned him doing this.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 11:37:36
  His feedback is good, but there isn't much of it - just 9 items sold. Decision time will be when the package arrives!
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- frankofyle
- 27/08/09 @ 11:17:21
Aha! Bugger morals. If you're within your eBay rights to only pay what the seller requested, then do so. However, if a genuine mistake has been made (and as you say, you'll know this when the parcel arrives), then you can make a decision about paying extra, depending on condition of goods, what sort of mood you're in, state of bank account, the weather, whether Aldershot lost their last game or not, whether your cold's gone or still lingering on, etc., etc. Lots to consider.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 11:54:08
  Thanks, that cheered me up :-)
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- banana ^Pro
- http://poetry4fun.blog.co.uk
- 27/08/09 @ 11:30:55
I'm with jstgrrl on this one.

I used to sell stuff on ebay and to begin with it was quite difficult to work out cost of postage and packing.

The system used to want it in the sale thingy up front and sometimes it wasn't possible to do that ahead of time.

I always found that the buyers were very good and would wait until I found out how much it would cost and then would pay whatever it did cost.

Nobody ever suggested they wouldn't pay the extra.

I am surprised that someone wouldn't.

It was very nice of the seller to say that you didn't have to pay the extra. It will be very easy to see if the postage did cost that amount or not.

If it did then I see no way that he could be 'trying it on'.

As long as you pay the extra via the ebay system and he doesn't get any access to any other information such as bank details etc and you aren't putting yourself at risk then it doesn't seem to be a decision to me.

If I'd been the seller I wouldn't have sent it out without getting the P&P sorted out in the first place.

I think really this boils down to 'is it ok to rip other people off - can I feel ok about it?'

You are the only person who can answer that one.

For me the answer is always NO.
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- - banana ^Pro
  - http://poetry4fun.blog.co.uk
  - 27/08/09 @ 11:35:36
  Just realised how grouchy that sounded.
  
  Sorry - I've got an upset stomach and it is making me bad tempered.
  
  Feel free to delete it.
  
  Hope I didn't offend anyone.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 11:52:01
  This may be a mistake. Perhaps he misweighed the package or guessed. If I had done that I'd accept the mistake and remember never to do it again.
  
  You ask "is it ok to rip other people off"
  
  No of course it isn't, but you should take responsibility for your own mistakes. I'd never even have dreamed of asking the buyer for more money if it was my mistake as a seller.
  
  I thought I was getting a bargain and if I pay the extra £5 I'm not getting a bargain any more - my costs have gone up by 50%. Imagine if a shop did this: the price tag says £100 and at the checkout they tell you "sorry, that should have said £150".
  
  As I've said, I'm going to wait until it arrives and then decide.
  
  Thanks for your thoughts and don't worry about sounding grumpy - I'm grumpy myself too because of my cough that won't go away!
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- catsInVienna
- 27/08/09 @ 12:11:40
Oh my dear! There are a lot of suggestions! I think it is really a hard decision for everybody. Let us know your decision!
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 12:21:12
  I'll make another post about this in a few days - pretty much every imaginable possibility has been expressed now!
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- playwrite27
- http://www.davidtennant.blog.co.uk
- 27/08/09 @ 12:13:33
I'd check out the seller's creds, first. How long has he been selling, what's his rating, etc.

Is he a scammer or a legit seller?
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 12:38:43
  Looks legit, but has only made 9 sales.
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- Middleagedbloke ^Pro
- 27/08/09 @ 12:32:59
Shit mate! I think I too would wait for the parcel to arrive then check the postage and of course the goods are working then mak a decision. If a genuine mistake offer 50% of the postage as gesture of solidarity, though in your current sitation two and a half quid is not to be sneezed at. (oops pun not intended!)

Nigel
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 12:37:56
  I'll definitely wait, and I may well end up paying half as you and others have suggested. I'm a bit niggled to have been put in this position by someone else's carelessness.
  - - justgrrl
    - 27/08/09 @ 12:48:04
    you actually don't HAVE to buy it, if the 'circumstances' changed, you are entitled to cancel the deal.
    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - 27/08/09 @ 12:55:07
      I DO have to buy it, as I committed to it and paid, according to the rules. The seller is breaking the rules by asking for more money.
      
      It's already in transit: even if I could "cancel the deal" (which I can't) it would still cost me £10 to send it back to the seller and then it would have cost me £10 and I'd have nothing to show for it.
      - justgrrl
        
        27/08/09 @ 12:59:22
        
        I mean, not cancel now when it's on the way, but once you realised it is not as the 'rules' say, then you could have cancelled.
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        27/08/09 @ 13:04:37
        
        Actually, I couldn't have done that. The email I got (yesterday) said that it was being sent "this morning". I didn't even see the email until the afternoon by which time it was already too late. This could be seen as a 2nd mistake by the seller: acting without giving me the chance to express my preference.
        
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        justgrrl
        
        27/08/09 @ 13:18:11
        
        I like all this thread, and I would call it "The 5 pounds debate' - it's a great opportunity to see 'what', and especially 'how' everyone is thinking.
        
        Please tell us what you do when you receive the package (you said you'll do it, anyway). Thanks.
        
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- safriz
- http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
- 27/08/09 @ 15:51:27
i would pay after receiving the item and assessing that the postage cost was as he says.After all everybody makes mistakes.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 15:56:44
  Fair enough, thanks.
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- sparkles101
- http://sparkles101.blog.co.uk
- 27/08/09 @ 16:25:32
ummm, he should have done his home work Tom, you agreed on one price, and now he's come back with another, I'd get him to pay the difference XXX
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 16:30:04
  Thanks Aly, now I need to tot up the votes for each option!
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- catsInVienna
- 27/08/09 @ 18:29:08
It is a post box, is not it? The picture is great. Where you take it?
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 27/08/09 @ 18:42:57
  Thanks, I'm glad you like it! Yes, it's a postbox in a small village about 5Km from here, just next to a lovely old church.
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- gardengirl
- 27/08/09 @ 20:54:10
Because you think you got a good deal, I think you should pay the extra otherwise he will get nothing.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 29/08/09 @ 17:14:59
  I've offered half...
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- dancetotheradio
- 28/08/09 @ 10:37:51
I wouldn't. Simply cause if I was the one making the mistake of putting the wrong amount for the item I wouldn't charge anything more afterwards.
Cause it was my mistake and the buyer shouldn't have to suffer from my mistakes.
Ok, maybe you wont suffer cause you made such a bargain, but still.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 29/08/09 @ 17:13:40
  That was my basic view too, but after reflection I've offered to pay half even thought it's his fault.
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- ohtralala
- 28/08/09 @ 20:18:36
I agree with La Spice - check it and pay the due sum. It would worry me not to, but it would worry me to be conned!
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 29/08/09 @ 17:17:59
  The claim appears genuine. I offered half...
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- The_Walrus ^Pro
- http://www.doctor-dark.co.uk
- 29/08/09 @ 08:26:17
Yes, I would. People have paid me the extra in the past, when I have asked nicely. I always told them to check the postage on the item when it arrived. Most of the private sellers on eBay are decent people.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 29/08/09 @ 17:18:53
  I've only had trouble once before, but it was bad trouble. In this case though, I've offered half.
  - - The_Walrus ^Pro
    - http://www.doctor-dark.co.uk
    - 29/08/09 @ 19:44:58
    It's unusual to get real problems, which is not what the newspapers will say, of course. Your seller has been honest about it, and half a loaf is better than no bread, maaan...
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- WildWitch
- 29/08/09 @ 16:52:56
I had something similar happen with radiohead tickets. There were loads of us on line trying to get tickets at the time. A lady in the states got a pair and basicly said first come first served at face value (its a fan loyalty thing so the touts on ebay dont get them first and charge) anyway, i bought the tickets from her but she forgot to charge post and packaging. I was so grateful for the tickets cause they are like gold dust that i paid her for it even though it was her mistake.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 29/08/09 @ 17:06:55
  I can see why you did it in that case. I've just offered to pay half. In the circumstances that seems reasonable.
  - - WildWitch
    - 29/08/09 @ 17:14:41
    Well thats something, a lot of people wouldnt do that im sure. Good karma and all that eh!
    
    With the radiohead tickets though i was just so thankful, if she hadnt sent them to me i would have had to resort to ebay and pay tout prices - yes im a total radiohead geek ;-)
    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - 29/08/09 @ 17:24:02
      Unfortunately I've never seen Radiohead live and I'd really love to. They are playing the Leeds festival tonight, I think *sigh*
      - WildWitch
        
        29/08/09 @ 17:56:05
        
        Yes they are, i wish i could have gone.
        
        Iv seen them 4 times now and every time they are totaly amazing. I was fortunate enough to be at V festival when they headlined there, i stood for 13 hours to secure a place on the very front row, was worth it too. Some very lucky people are going to see them tonight, a great festival band.
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        29/08/09 @ 19:01:32
        
        I don't know if you know the blogger LittleBop here or not (she's on my friends list): she's seeing them at Leeds tonight. I really wish I was there!
        
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        WildWitch
        
        30/08/09 @ 16:10:59
        
        oooooh lucky. There was a radiohead night last night on sky arts. They showed them live in France, followed by the film 'meeting people is easy' then from the basement.
        
        Drool, drooooool, droooooooooooooollllllll.
        
        I love Thom ;-)
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        30/08/09 @ 16:13:49
        
        I bet you'll find this interesting, it's their set list from last night:
        
        '15 Step'
        'Airbag'
        'There There'
        'All I Need'
        'Lucky'
        'Nude'
        'Morning Bell'
        'Weird Fishes/Arpeggi'
        '2+2=5'
        'A Wolf At The Door'
        'Videotape'
        '(nice dream)'
        'The Gloaming'
        'Reckoner'
        'The National Anthem'
        'Bodysnatchers'
        'Idioteque'
        'You And Whose Army?'
        'These Are My Twisted Words'
        'Jigsaw Falling Into Place'
        'Paranoid Android'
        'Just'
        'Everything In Its Right Place'
        
        A few classics missing there!
        
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        WildWitch
        
        30/08/09 @ 16:17:20
        
        many missing, though dont think iv seen them do nicedream live.
        
        They didnt do creep, hehehe! they did it at v and i was there singing my head off.
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        30/08/09 @ 16:22:18
        
        I didn't think they played Creep at all any more! It's the absence of Karma Police, No Surprises and Street Spirit that surprise me the most.
        
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        WildWitch
        
        30/08/09 @ 16:27:33
        
        They did it at V festival 2006, the crowd went mad.
        
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